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Today's topics:

* Wow! rFactor PCC + Nordschleife 2007 - 8 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.simulators/browse_thread/thread/a528177e1d093c85?hl=en
* GPL for rF v1.2 spotted in the wild... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.simulators/browse_thread/thread/a79c88f8441b2889?hl=en
* NR2003 Nascar Racing - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.simulators/browse_thread/thread/9b3081f2ccb324d0?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wow! rFactor PCC + Nordschleife 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.simulators/browse_thread/thread/a528177e1d093c85?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 1:09 am
From: Uwe Schürkamp

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:59:24 -0700, p.oxford@ca.rr.com wrote:
> On Sep 2, 4:56 pm, "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> It's a great track, very thoughtfully laid out
>> and finished.
>
> Yea, if you have the energy and strength of purpose to memorize all
> the damn turns.
>
>

If you need extra motivation, read up on some f1 history from the 60s.
You'll find the Nordschleife mentioned in every 2nd paragraph ;-)

Cheers, uwe

--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 3:05 am
From: "MikeWhy"

> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:59:24 -0700, p.oxford@ca.rr.com wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 4:56 pm, "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> It's a great track, very thoughtfully laid out
>>> and finished.
>>
>> Yea, if you have the energy and strength of purpose to memorize all
>> the damn turns.

(Weird. My news server didn't pickup your post. I saw it in Uwe's
response...)

I crossed that bridge long ago, back when GPL's Nurburgring was new and
fresh. It *was* difficult. The track map names defied memorization until the
nice folks here helped translate them to something I could relate to in
English. A bit of the folklore also helps you memorize the names, and then
you can label your memories of their shapes.

I tried to reproduce that here, but deleted it before sending. I group the
corners into sections slightly different than the track map does, and
introducing it here, now, is more likely to confuse than help. Maybe someone
else can help with the literal translations.

I don't know how to help with the "strength of purpose" part. For me, the
question was never "Why?", but "How?"

==========

Here's a second try, without any attempt at continuity, with a bit of the
folklore...

Hatzenabach: slow chicanes leading up to...

Quiddlebacher: bridge over the road to the town of Quiddelbach.

Flugplatz: "airport", right after the large jump. GPL cars got airborne
several feet here, but the Porsche just doesn't have the speed. It leads to
the pair of very fast right handers leading onto...

Schwendenkreuz: "Swedish Cross". Very fast slightly downhill straight
leading to a left hand sweeper. I think the name is for the turn itself; it
was said that it honors the Swedish soldiers who died here in one war or
another. Or maybe simply a Swede racer who died... I don't recall clearly
the story that was told. (For years, I thought the Swedish Cross referred to
what I now know is Metgezfeld. In GPL, there was a huge red flag with a
white cross draped on the hillside at the 2nd left hander there.)

Aremberg Bridge: underpass below the bridge carrying the road to the town of
Aremberg. Medium slow right hand sweeper leading onto...

Fuchsrohe: "Fox Row", supposedly for the fox families that lived here during
construction. Very fast downhill slalom from Aremberg Bridge, and then back
uphill to Adenaur Forst. Treacherously bumpy at the natural braking points
near the top, tending to upset the car.

Adenaur Forst. "Adenaur forest." The town of Adenaur is close by.
Increasingly slower series of 90 deg chicanes. Leads onto...

Metgezfeld: farm fields belonging to somebody named Metgez, presumably. Fast
section with gentle kinks leading to two increasingly slower left handlers.
(In GPL, there was a huge red flag draped on the hillside to the right of
the second left hander. For years, I mistakenly thought of this section as
Schwendenkreuz, for the red cross.)

Kallenhardt, downhill esses. In GPL, this was distinct for the row of hedges
that is now depicted as armco guarding the cliff dropoff on the left.

Weirseifen: first of two bridges. 2nd gear left right chicane leading onto a
fast downhill straight to...

Breidscheidt: second of two bridges. 3rd gear left right chicane leading
to...

Ex Muhle: steep uphill right hander, supposedly steeper than Laguna's
corkscrew.

Lauda Eck: fast left hand kink; almost but can't quite be taken flat out in
5th (PCC2007). Niki Lauda crashed here and was severely burned in the last
F1GP run here. (I might have this wrong. The name might actually apply to
the right hander that follows, which I think of as...)

Bergwerk: long sweeping right hander opening onto a series of very fast
leftward kinks, more or less taken as one huge left hand sweeper.

Kesselchen: very fast very gentle series of right hand kinks. The Porsche
almost reaches terminal speed before the narrow, high speed chicane leading
onto...

Angst Korner: aptly named. Two high speed lefts leading to a blind 4th gear
right.

... I forget the names now; a 4th gear straight, 3rd gear long sweeper, and
then the series of kinks leading to...

Karrusel: (carousel) a hairpin with a concrete banking. Aim for the pine
tree coming out the sweeper.

Hohe Acht: (high point, "attention height") flat out slight uphill run
through the gears to increasingly tighter left hand kinks. Marks the
beginning of the back half of the course. It's downhill from here.

Wipperman: a couple of 4th gear straights and high speed left-right
chicanes, slightly downhill.

Eschbach: big sweeping 3rd gear downhill long left hander. Right hander at
the bottom leading to...

Bruunchen: slight downhill run, 4th gear straights, 3rd gear sweeping 90 deg
bends.

Eis Kurve: "ice curve", 3rd gear 120 deg. left hand, right kink, leading to
a blind downhill left-right kinks, from which it gets its name. There's very
little traction here after cresting before the kinks.

Pflantzgarten 1: ("plant garden", possibly named for the castle gardens that
bordered here) after a short straight with a small steep drop, two 4th gear
right handers, uphill to a left, and then another left, and then a sharp
downhill drop to...

Pflantzgarten 2: mostly blind series of long gentle esses. Two right-left
series. Gas on point is apex of the second right hander once the last left
hander comes into view. One last good run up through fifth leading onto...

Schwalbenschwanz: "swallowtail", possibly named after it's plan view shape.
Right hander leading uphill to reverse camber left. Uphill a bit more to the
little carousel, another concrete banking set into the left hander. Uphill
some more to a right with a blind exit. Crest for a very short straight
leading onto the fast sweeping right hander which opens onto...

Dottinger Hohe: flat out run to under Antoine's Bridge, Tiergarten (tea
garden), and slowing back to 2nd gear for the hochensrainchicane.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 9:43 am
From: Ronald Stoehr

MikeWhy wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:59:24 -0700, p.oxford@ca.rr.com wrote:
>>> On Sep 2, 4:56 pm, "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> It's a great track, very thoughtfully laid out
>>>> and finished.
>>>
>>> Yea, if you have the energy and strength of purpose to memorize all
>>> the damn turns.
>
> (Weird. My news server didn't pickup your post. I saw it in Uwe's
> response...)
>
> I crossed that bridge long ago, back when GPL's Nurburgring was new and
> fresh. It *was* difficult. The track map names defied memorization until
> the nice folks here helped translate them to something I could relate to
> in English. A bit of the folklore also helps you memorize the names, and
> then you can label your memories of their shapes.

How does knowing the names (in whatever language) help you getting through
all the turns as fast as possible? I can drive a few dozen tracks in my
mind, but I don't know more than 2 turns by name... =8^O

l8er
ronny

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 9:50 am
From: "Albert Ross"

"Ronald Stoehr" <ronnynews@online.de> wrote in message
news:fbk1v3$ehd$1@online.de...
> MikeWhy wrote:
>>> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:59:24 -0700, p.oxford@ca.rr.com wrote:
>>>> On Sep 2, 4:56 pm, "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> It's a great track, very thoughtfully laid out
>>>>> and finished.
>>>>
>>>> Yea, if you have the energy and strength of purpose to memorize all
>>>> the damn turns.
>>
>> (Weird. My news server didn't pickup your post. I saw it in Uwe's
>> response...)
>>
>> I crossed that bridge long ago, back when GPL's Nurburgring was new and
>> fresh. It *was* difficult. The track map names defied memorization until
>> the nice folks here helped translate them to something I could relate to
>> in English. A bit of the folklore also helps you memorize the names, and
>> then you can label your memories of their shapes.
>
> How does knowing the names (in whatever language) help you getting through
> all the turns as fast as possible? I can drive a few dozen tracks in my
> mind, but I don't know more than 2 turns by name... =8^O
>
Knowing the names would serve as a common point of reference I you wanted to
discuss the track with someone.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 10:46 am
From: "MikeWhy"

It's a fair question. Many tracks have fewer corners total than some
sections of the north loop. The names help to anchor things. Estoril versus
Barcelona, for example, or Kallenhardt versus Bergwerk. Or Esses, Carousel,
and Keyhole at Mid-America. You might categorize things differently. I can't
imagine *not* putting a label on it, even something made up. "The 2nd gear
hairpin leading opening onto the 4th gear left-right chicane." (But "Bit
Kurve" already sums that up for me.)

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 11:23 am
From: Ronald Stoehr

Albert Ross wrote:
>
> "Ronald Stoehr" <ronnynews@online.de> wrote in message
> news:fbk1v3$ehd$1@online.de...
>> MikeWhy wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:59:24 -0700, p.oxford@ca.rr.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 2, 4:56 pm, "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> It's a great track, very thoughtfully laid out
>>>>>> and finished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yea, if you have the energy and strength of purpose to memorize all
>>>>> the damn turns.
>>>
>>> (Weird. My news server didn't pickup your post. I saw it in Uwe's
>>> response...)
>>>
>>> I crossed that bridge long ago, back when GPL's Nurburgring was new
>>> and fresh. It *was* difficult. The track map names defied
>>> memorization until the nice folks here helped translate them to
>>> something I could relate to in English. A bit of the folklore also
>>> helps you memorize the names, and then you can label your memories of
>>> their shapes.
>>
>> How does knowing the names (in whatever language) help you getting
>> through
>> all the turns as fast as possible? I can drive a few dozen tracks in my
>> mind, but I don't know more than 2 turns by name... =8^O
>>
> Knowing the names would serve as a common point of reference I you
> wanted to discuss the track with someone.

Agreed, but that's "something completely different" to

>>>>> Yea, if you have the energy and strength of purpose to memorize all
>>>>> the damn turns.

Just curious
ronny

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 12:01 pm
From: p.oxford@ca.rr.com

> Knowing the names would serve as a common point of reference I you wanted to
> discuss the track with someone.

ISI (or any developer) really needs to include the track graphic with
named corners, accessible from the race menu, in the next version. A
small, doable and meaningful enhancement. I'm still a bit murky about
the Lesmos.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 12:15 pm
From: "MikeWhy"

<p.oxford@ca.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1188932506.702209.116280@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Knowing the names would serve as a common point of reference I you wanted
>> to
>> discuss the track with someone.
>
> ISI (or any developer) really needs to include the track graphic with
> named corners, accessible from the race menu, in the next version. A
> small, doable and meaningful enhancement. I'm still a bit murky about
> the Lesmos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodromo_Nazionale_Monza

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GPL for rF v1.2 spotted in the wild...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.simulators/browse_thread/thread/a79c88f8441b2889?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 7:03 am
From: "Mika Takala"

> It's not on rFactorcentral.

It might be because they just ripped of GPLEA car models for their mod
without GPLEA:s permission.

I'm not touching mods that have this kind of history.....

--
Mika Takala

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 11:39 am
From: mcewena

On Sep 4, 10:03 am, "Mika Takala"
<mika.tak...@INVALIDpp.nic.fi.invalid> wrote:
> > It's not on rFactorcentral.
>
> It might be because they just ripped of GPLEA car models for their mod
> without GPLEA:s permission.
>
> I'm not touching mods that have this kind of history.....
>
> --
> Mika Takala

Are GPLEA still around to *give* their permission?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NR2003 Nascar Racing
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.simulators/browse_thread/thread/9b3081f2ccb324d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 4 2007 11:05 pm
From: Mr T

Hi,

Being an Australian living in Australia, I haven't had much (if any)
exposure to Nascar racing. The only time I think it gets mentioned
publically is when Marcos Ambrose (from Australian V8 Supercars fame)
does something in the Busch series. I think the assumption by most of
us here tends to be that it's got to be easy 'cause you're just racing
in a circle the whole time. I have recently been playing NR2003 and I
have to say that I'm quite impressed, not just with the game, but with
how much skill it takes to drive a Nascar car properly on each of the
tracks. I thought (not knowing anything about Nascar) that all the
tracks were the same, but having played the game I can see they are
very, very different. It wouldn't be so difficult if you were driving
on the track alone the whole time, but overtaking other cars provides
a great challenge especially in long races. It's amazing how tight
some of the tracks are - I can amagine these would be great tracks to
watch as a spectator in real life, as you would see everything that
happens. Unfortunately, we don't get Nascar on our free to air TV so I
haven't seen any real races. One day I might get Pay TV (cable) so
I'll see some for sure then.

Regards,
Mike.

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Aaron Blog

środa, 10 października 2007

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